Posts by jonathan dough

225

Do you hate God

by Star tiger in

jw
friends

i beginning to think that this would be a good way of thinking, a totally righteous being would not let all the shit that is happenning to people prevail, this being cannot have the best interests of man as his first priority, it's all about ego and no matter how the human familty suffers, he hates pretty much everyone, as the tv show says, your fired, let's get a better god, one who at least gives everyone a chance!!.

i welcome comments from god apologists, to at least have an argument as to why they put they're faith in someone that does'nt give a shit about them!.

star tiger.

jonathan dough

You say that even if we don't love God we should "act like" we do. That is being a fake and a hypocrite, is it not?

I tend to agree with this. Search for God. Find Him, love Him. Don't claim to be His if you don't really know Him. Isn't it obvious that this causes problems?

The comment is directed to Christians who sometimes don't feel like they "love" God like a spouse or their child. That's not an excuse for Chrtistians to not act as though they love Him. I didn't say to pretend to love God, but simply conduct yourself as if you had those deep feelings of love; be respectfull, determine what his will is and act according to Christ's commands, among other things. No, it doesn't cause problems for those believers who are suffering, those in pain, perhaps those with less faith - Christians who have lost their loved ones. They should not conduct themselves as though they hate Him.

I would agree, but it seems to me that the Jews, like JWs, are worshipping a limited God.

That's true. Their version is limited, but the essence of that God YHWH is not, regardless of how distorted their understanding is. It's similar to the way the JWs don't have the Jesus of the Gospel, who was, and is, God, as that term is understood and taught in mainstream Christianity. http://144000.110mb.com/trinity/index-2.html#9

225

Do you hate God

by Star tiger in

jw
friends

i beginning to think that this would be a good way of thinking, a totally righteous being would not let all the shit that is happenning to people prevail, this being cannot have the best interests of man as his first priority, it's all about ego and no matter how the human familty suffers, he hates pretty much everyone, as the tv show says, your fired, let's get a better god, one who at least gives everyone a chance!!.

i welcome comments from god apologists, to at least have an argument as to why they put they're faith in someone that does'nt give a shit about them!.

star tiger.

jonathan dough

But , anyway, I mentioned that Jonathon worships a "triune yhwh", whereas Jewish people (my family) worship a "singular YHWH" because a well-meaning friend of mine was suggesting I'd be happy becoming a Methodist.

She was not aware that the trinity god is a DIFFERENT god than the Jews worship, so not only would I be changing religion, I'd be changing gods, and I explained to her I was not willing to do that.

You don't understand the Trinity doctrine. YHWH is the God of Jacob for both Jews and true Christians. He is triune in the sense that He has three natures, even though Jews don't recognize or understand this. It's the same God Almighty, who happens to possess three natures, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It is not a different God; only the understanding of YHWH's nature is different between the two groups. Even though Jews don't claim to worship a triune YHWH, that's the nature of the deity that they are worshipping whether or not they choose to acknowledge it.

It is explained in great detail right here: http://144000.110mb.com/trinity/index.html#1

You say that even if we don't love God we should "act like" we do. That is being a fake and a hypocrite, is it not?

Not at all. The comment is directed to Christians who sometimes don't feel like they "love' God like a spouse or their child. I didn't say to pretend to love God, but simply conduct yourself as if you would if had those deep feelings of love; be respectfull, determine what his will is and act according to Christ's commands. You're reading too much into that.

Because it is possible that you are worshiping a false god...therefore showing contempt to the true god. And before you say it isn't possible because the bible says so...prove it.

You aren't paying attention. As I explained in detail above, it's not something that can be proven, or needs to be proven, but taken on faith, belief. That's the standard, and that's good enough for me and billions others. You may continue to frame the issues in terms of "proof," but by doing so you are evading the answer that you don't want to hear because you can't argue successfully against that. It's not about proof, but faith, belief. Proving anything to anybody in this context won't get you saved.

Its not that I believe that the older gods were in fact more godly than your god...but what evidence do you really have that you are correct?

Are you just dismissing other gods?

Well, of course, absolutely. There is only one triune YHWH in my opinion, and he alone is to be worshipped.

And here is the problem, it is your opinion isn't it?

Again, you aren't paying close attention to what I wrote. I explained it need not be proven, hence no evidence is necessary, and that it was my opinion. By grace you are saved, through faith. As Christ said, blessed is he who doesn't see yet believes. Hope this helps.

225

Do you hate God

by Star tiger in

jw
friends

i beginning to think that this would be a good way of thinking, a totally righteous being would not let all the shit that is happenning to people prevail, this being cannot have the best interests of man as his first priority, it's all about ego and no matter how the human familty suffers, he hates pretty much everyone, as the tv show says, your fired, let's get a better god, one who at least gives everyone a chance!!.

i welcome comments from god apologists, to at least have an argument as to why they put they're faith in someone that does'nt give a shit about them!.

star tiger.

jonathan dough

Maybe you hate god because you are worshipping the false one? Possible?or not?

Based on what I wrote, what on earth gave you the idea that I hate God?

Jonathon...how have you come to the conclusion that the God of the bible is the true God?

I became convinced based on how He works in my life, and the words I read in the Bible.

Are you just dismissing other gods?

Well, of course, absolutely. There is only one triune YHWH in my opinion, and he alone is to be worshipped.

Older gods?

Of course I dismiss them, as any true believer must. Not that they are gods in any meaningful sense, or true gods, in my opinion. There is only one God, a triune God, YHWH, but this is opinion; but not only mine. I have good company, over 2 billion believers and counting.

or do you have some evidence?

That there is only one true God, YHWH? Not scientific evidence or anything like that, of course not, other than creation itself which the Bible says is sufficient. But that is not necessary to believe and exert faith. Proof is in the power, not the talk, like sticking your hand in an open flame, you don't need a degree in higher education to know it hurts. The evidence, or proof, that I find satisfactory to me lies in how he works in my life and what I read in Scripture. It's about faith. It was never meant to be "proven" to anyone, although many find evidence enough to convince.

If "proving" the existence of God and Christ was the key to salvation, how few would get saved. Christ's sacrifice was meant to save as many people as possible, and if people must prove intellectually the existence of Christ and YHWH, look who he would end up with. Besides, the standard is a moral one, not an intellectual one. Salvation comes through grace, and faith, not works (Eph. 2:9), and proving your way to salvation is just another type of "works." How can anyone prove the resurrection of the dead? It's impossible. But once a right-hearted person believes that, the rest is a cakewalk.

Are you ok with me hating Isis or the mother goddess of nature?

Why would I care if you love or hate false gods?

How do you KNOW they are not the TRUE gods/goddessess?

Again, it's the standard of proof you are using that's tripping you, and others, up. I believe that they aren't true gods, because the Bible says they aren't, and that's good enough for me. And I come to this conclusion by reading the Bible and studying it and feeling the power of God work in my life in too many wonderful and personal ways to list. He would work in you as well if your heart was in the right place and you asked and made a sincere effort. Can I prove that? That's for you to find out, not for me or anyone else to "prove."

By grace you are saved, through faith. http://www.144000.110mb.com/trinity/index-4.html#17

225

Do you hate God

by Star tiger in

jw
friends

i beginning to think that this would be a good way of thinking, a totally righteous being would not let all the shit that is happenning to people prevail, this being cannot have the best interests of man as his first priority, it's all about ego and no matter how the human familty suffers, he hates pretty much everyone, as the tv show says, your fired, let's get a better god, one who at least gives everyone a chance!!.

i welcome comments from god apologists, to at least have an argument as to why they put they're faith in someone that does'nt give a shit about them!.

star tiger.

jonathan dough

At least the God-haters believe in God. It's a shame they violate the greatest commandment which is to "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind."

Matthew 22:36-40

It's not a suggestion, but a command. http://www.144000.110mb.com/trinity/index-8.html#4

And even if you don't feel like you love him, you should at least act like it.

15

JWs are the Modern Day Pharisees

by ilikecheese in

jw
friends

i've been reading the gospel of matthew a bit lately, and it kind of strikes me how much the pharisees seem to resemble the jws.

i'm sure this topic has come up several times before, but i've been thinking about suggesting this topic to my jw boyfriend to see what happens.... probably nothing good.

i'm up for a good whiny argument.

jonathan dough

Pharisees to the core. They persecuted and executed Christians believing they were doing God's will just like the Company persecutes, drives its members to suicide, slaughters their own babies on the altar of Baal by denying them blood transfusions. Both groups prevent, or attempt to prevent, man from entering heaven just as Christ claimed. New Testament similarities are striking.

http://144000.110mb.com/144000/index.html

54

You Can Overcome WT Phobias!

by leavingwt in

jw
friends

early in the exit process, it's very important to begin overcoming irrational fears.

fear of the devil.

fear of god.

jonathan dough

Fear of Armageddon

Though death is seen as annihilation by the WT, there are special indignities visited upon those not fully immersed in organizational activities when the end comes. Their eyes will rot out of their sockets and they will suffer immolation at the hands of God. Armageddon is kept vivid in their minds, through pictures such as the one designed to scare small Witness children found in From Paradise Lost to Paradise Regained, 1958, p. 208209). Much fear is centered around the intense shame and despair that will surely be experienced as the JW sees their friends survive while they die.

While it's true a believer musn't necessarily "fear" Armageddon, make no mistake about the fact that the Bible writes of bad times coming for the earth.

The word "reign" cannot mean to rule over humans on earth, especially on an earth destined for fire and complete destruction which is made clear by 2 Peter 3:10,11: "But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a mighty roar and the elements will be dissolved by fire and the earth and everything in it will be found out. ... everything is to be dissolved this way," (NAB; "Total destruction is assumed (11)," notes 3,10). "...the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat" (2 Peter 3:12). "But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men" (2 Peter 3:7). Peter's warning reemphasized Zephaniah's warning, where the ancient prophet transmitted the Almighty's words, "I will utterly consume all things from off the face of the ground, saith Jehovah. I will consume man and beast; I will consume the birds of the heavens, and the fishes of the sea, and the stumbling blocks with the wicked; and I will cut off man from off the face of the ground, saith Jehovah" (Zephaniah 1:2,3)

Complete destruction of man on earth is intended. " Their blood will be poured out like dust and their entrails like dung. 18 Neither their silver nor their gold will be able to save them on the day of the LORD’s wrath.” In the fire of his jealousy the whole earth will be consumed, for he will make a sudden end of all who live on the earth (Zephaniah 1:17, 18). The Jehovah's Witnesses theory that they alone, their great crowd, will survive Armageddon and be ruled from heaven by the 144,000 is simply not in accord with Scripture.

http://144000.110mb.com/144000/index.html

Fear of God

The Watchtower may paint a kindly picture of God in their publications, but in practice God is austere and exacting once you are baptized. Salvation is never secure, and JWs can only believe they are saved on a momentary basis. Since a relationship with Christ is not promoted and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is not taught, the believer receives no true joy of fellowship with God. Pride of personal and organizational accomplishments and the spirit of elitism fills the void.

True, to a point. In all fairness the Bible does teach, repeatedly, that the beginning of wisdom is the fear of God, and a healthy fear of God, not cowering necessarily, is wise and mandatory. What it doesn't teach is fear of man, which includes those over at The Company, the elders, etc., who want you shaking in your boots. They aren't the glorious ones Paul was referring to. http://144000.110mb.com/trinity/index-2.html#10

23

Gag worthy

by baltar447 in

jw
friends

taken from a closed jw facebook group:.

"the kingdom hall is my university, jehovah is my professor, jesus is my instructor, the holy spirit is my protector, the angels are my support system, the worldwide brotherhood are my class mates, the bible is my text book, trials & temptations are my exams, finding lost sheep is my assignment, prayer is my attendance, life in paradise is my future degree, and doing jehovah's will is my motto.

enroll today!!!

jonathan dough

"The KINGDOM HALL is my university, JEHOVAH is my professor, JESUS is my instructor, THE HOLY SPIRIT is my protector, the ANGELS are my support system, The WORLDWIDE BROTHERHOOD are my class mates, the BIBLE is my text book, TRIALS & TEMPTATIONS are my exams, FINDING LOST SHEEP is my assignment, PRAYER is my attendance, LIFE IN PARADISE is my future degree, and DOING JEHOVAH'S WILL is my motto. Enroll today!!! There is room for all. Tuition is FREE!!"

They forgot the most important part, the core teaching of the New Testament, the message of the gospel and the reason Jesus was nailed to the cross in the first place, which was to redeem mankind and reconcile mankind to Almighty God.

The author forgot to ask, and answer, "WHO IS YOUR SAVIOR?" Their lack of basic Bible understanding is incomprehensible and frightening. And we know their Jesus who they claim was just another man can't redeem man because according to Psalm 49:7, no man can redeem another man or serve as ransom. http://144000.110mb.com/trinity/index.html

61

The New Covenant Discussion

by Listener in

i left the org many years ago as a teenager.

i started looking more closely at their doctrines a few months ago to work out if they really have the truth.

when i cam across the notion that jesus is not mediator for everyone i was startled and have been looking at the issue a lot more closely.

jonathan dough

If they claim to be in the new covenant and yet not "annointed", ask them who is their mediator?

If any JW claims to be a party to the New Covenant they don't know what they are talking about and don't understand their own doctrine because official Company teachings in this regard is that they aren't parties to the New Covenant at all, only the 144,000. And they can't claim third party beneficiary status. If you're not a party to the New Covenant you cannot be saved.

Only true believers who are parties to the New Covenant can receive forgiveness of sins and other attendant benefits[Home]

Aside from the obvious, that Christ's death brought forgiveness of sins for all true believers committed in this life, those who obtain this benefit, God's people, must be parties to the New Covenant.

Any man not a party to the New Covenant cannot obtain its benefits anymore than a Baal-worshipping Assyrian could obtain benefits under the Mosaic Law not being a circumcised member of the nation of Israel. And no one can have their robes washed in the blood of the Lamb Jesus, have their sins permanently forgiven in the Christian era and be perfected or justified (declared righteous) during the thousand year reign under an expired New Covenant anymore than a Christian today can have his or her sins forgiven under the obsolete Mosaic law.

Make no mistake about this one fact: it is absolutely impossible, logically or scripturally, for the Jehovah’s Witnesses to educate the resurrected to perfection (justification, a declaration of righteousness and reconciliation with God; a state of sinlessness) under any set of laws, especially the so-called Law scrolls of Revelation 20:12. The gift of reconciliation, redemption, sanctification, justification and forgiveness of sins through the exercise of faith and God's gift of grace is only possible by and through the New Covenant of Christ’s blood.

http://144000.110mb.com/144000/i-4.html

http://144000.110mb.com/144000/i-3.html

61

Paradise Earth. What will it be like?

by punkofnice in

paradise earth!!

if the wtb$ gb were right (work with me here.

i don't believe they even know how to tie their own shoe laces let alone be correct about this), what would life in a paradise earth be like?.

jonathan dough

There will be no paradise earth as the JWs falsely teach. It will be uninhabitable.

Complete destruction is made clear by 2 Peter 3:10,11: "But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a mighty roar and the elements will be dissolved by fire and the earth and everything in it will be found out. ... everything is to be dissolved this way," (NAB; "Total destruction is assumed (11)," notes 3,10). "...the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat" (2 Peter 3:12). "But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men" (2 Peter 3:7). Peter's warning reemphasized Zephaniah's warning, where the ancient prophet transmitted the Almighty's words, "I will utterly consume all things from off the face of the ground, saith Jehovah. I will consume man and beast; I will consume the birds of the heavens, and the fishes of the sea, and the stumbling blocks with the wicked; and I will cut off man from off the face of the ground, saith Jehovah" (Zephaniah 1:2,3)

Complete destruction of man on earth is intended. " Their blood will be poured out like dust and their entrails like dung. 18 Neither their silver nor their gold will be able to save them on the day of the LORD’s wrath.” In the fire of his jealousy the whole earth will be consumed, for he will make a sudden end of all who live on the earth (Zephaniah 1:17, 18). The Jehovah's Witnesses theory that they alone, their great crowd, will survive Armageddon and be ruled from heaven by the 144,000 is simply not in accord with Scripture.

http://144000.110mb.com/144000/index.html#IIA

59

Is it God, the Bible or just the Dubs?

by Slidin Fast in

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jonathan dough

The questions I care about are, Who is Jesus? and Why did he come? The answers to those questions could have an actual impact on my life.

It's off topic, but since you asked. Jesus was, and is, God the Son, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity. God-man, fully God, fully man, a divine person who assumed a human nature. And the primary reason he walked the earth was to redeem man through his death and reconcile humans to God Almighty.

It's all right here:

Proof texts that Jesus was, and is, God.